Quodo in Every Episode discussion: "Waltz"

[chacusha]

This week we're discussing... episode 6x11 "Waltz"!

Episode synopsis: While on the way to a hearing for Dukat's war crimes for which Sisko will testify, the ship transporting Sisko and Dukat is attacked and destroyed. Sisko ends up stranded on a planet with a mentally unstable Dukat.

What The Boys are up to in this episode: Odo has a very brief scene at the beginning of the episode, where he and Kira update the other senior officers on the status of the USS Honshu. Quark has no appearances or mentions in the episode. :( (Well, I guess Dukat inquires as to how he's doing, and that's it.)

One screencap from this episode:


Transcript: http://chakoteya.net/DS9/535.htm

Quodo fics tagged with this episode: None (https://archiveofourown.org/works?work_search%5Bsort_column%5D=revised_at&work_search%5Bother_tag_names%5D=Episode%3A+s06e11+Waltz&work_search%5Bexcluded_tag_names%5D=&work_search%5Bcrossover%5D=&work_search%5Bcomplete%5D=&work_search%5Bwords_from%5D=&work_search%5Bwords_to%5D=&work_search%5Bdate_from%5D=&work_search%5Bdate_to%5D=&work_search%5Bquery%5D=&work_search%5Blanguage_id%5D=&commit=Sort+and+Filter&tag_id=Star+Trek%3A+Deep+Space+Nine)

Tell us:
- What did you think about this episode?
- Have you written a fic set during/after this episode?
- Do you know of any other fics set in or that build off this episode that weren't linked above?
- What do you see as the Quodo potential for this episode?

Anonymous comments are on, so feel free to chime in even if you don't have a Dreamwidth account! If you prefer, we are also available on Discord:
https://discord.gg/VaCnMYvKu6 (18+ proship Quodo Discord - there is a dedicated channel for this event)
https://discord.gg/Htz4crCdCt (general Quodo Discord)

Comments

[chacusha]

Random thoughts:

- To be honest, on rewatch, I think this has come to be one of my least favorite episodes. On my first watch-through, at least I was intrigued by where this plotline was going, but now knowing the S7 Dukat-Sisko plotline it's setting up, I'm pretty much like nahhh to this whole episode.

- While the main issues I have are with Dukat's character and the writing, I have to say I also just find it not very fun to watch because so much of it is in the same place with lighting that is very hard on my eyes! Like, it's just Eyestrain the Episode for me. :/

- That said, I do like the character study, and for those who like Sisko/Dukat, especially one-sided (which I do) this episode is pretty ideal. Like, as an example, I really like getting to see different aspects of Dukat's psyche as represented by the Weyoun, Damar, and Kira hallucinations. It's fun to psychoanalyze what purpose they are serving here -- I think Weyoun kind of functions as a kind of "eviler imperialist" alternative that Dukat can feel good about himself for avoiding being, and Damar is his positive ego, kind of building up his self esteem, while the Kira hallucination is the moral critique Dukat is keen to defend himself from, but interestingly delivered in a way that always seems "unfair," which probably serves to defend and protect Dukat's ego rather than damage it significantly. I find the Kira hallucination both fascinating and unsettling because it's so directly a form of ventriloquism -- putting whatever words he wants in Bajorans' mouths in a way that is another instance of exerting control over them, even if just in his mind.

- Okay, I like all of that, but I think the main point of this episode, the key moment it's trying to arrive at, is that Dukat is "true evil." But I feel like the episode undermines this in too many ways by having this revelation of "true evil" be Dukat admitting that his goal all along was to wipe out every Bajoran while in the midst of a bout of insanity. For one, there are multiple ways to be evil in the world, and patronizingly thinking that a whole civilization is not capable of thinking for or governing itself (and wanting to be adored and recognized as superior, and rationalizing death camps, religious oppression, a system of Bajoran subservience, etc.) is already pretty dang evil, while wanting to eradicate that other civilization is another way of being evil. And notably, these ways of being evil are not particularly compatible with each other -- they are pretty mutually-exclusive as you cannot use a non-existent race to feel superior about yourself, and a smug, patronizing, "doing this for your own good" attitude is pretty incompatible with a hateful, contemptuous, and/or threatened one that might make you want to genocide a population. I suppose one person can be both but they'd have to flip between them pretty erratically/there's not really a coherent attitude that can encompass both. So while I can understand why Dukat started with one and then flipped into being the other, and I also can see why the second is seen as more evil, it does awkwardly seem to suggest that Dukat's turn to "true" evil lies in embracing the latter but does... not lie in having done the former for years?? I understand why the second one is a more clear-cut form of evil, but Dukat was already pretty evil and the framing here makes it seem like he wasn't, and it isn't even necessary for Dukat to completely change his characterization for Sisko to come to the conclusion that Dukat is "true evil."

Second, having Dukat experience this turn in the midst of a delusional break from reality makes it so that Sisko's "wow I have to acknowledge some people just truly are evil" reaction seems off. If I were there, seeing Dukat raving about this while clearly experiencing hallucinations and just not seeming fully lucid would not make me think "ah yes, he is more evil now"; it would just make me think "oh wow, he is less well now." I'm not saying being crazy would exonerate Dukat -- he was a bad person before he went crazy and is a bad person after. But the erraticness would make it so that I would take his pronouncements less rather than more seriously. And so when Sisko does seem to treat Dukat's pronouncements fully seriously, and the episode expects me to do so too, the episode just loses me here.

- In short, I think this episode was ruined by the writers trying too hard to establish that Dukat Is Bad in a way that is unmissable, but this ends up (1) not being necessary at least for people who will get it, because it's already plenty clear that Dukat is bad, (2) being actually very inconsistent with Dukat's existing characterization, which is just bad/inconsistent writing, (3) also bleeds out into Sisko and ends up warping his characterization too. Just bad for the characters all around, just because the writers were determined to make it completely unmissable that Dukat Is A Bad Guy Actually. There's a lot of good things in this episode -- like, lighting issues aside, I enjoyed the first ~40 minutes here. But the ending just ends up ruining the Dukat character work that's done in the rest of the episode. Ultimately, I think the goal that the writers set out to achieve at all costs just ruins the writing here.


Quodo potential:

Man, I'd be impressed with anyone who can stick a Quodo moment in this episode, given their irrelevance and the dark themes here. Maybe on Dukat's "How is everyone on what I'm sure you're once again calling Deep Space Nine? Odo, Kira, Quark?" line, it could cut to Odo and Quark (or all three of them) having a conversation about Dukat or the Terok Nor days, or the recent Dominion occupation or something...

[firebatvillain]

This episode was alright, I think it was better the first time, but it remains quite an intense watch for me. Practically no Quodo potential, and I think I liked Dukat better when his form of evil was more... rational I guess? Him being like actually insane and hallucinating made him feel a bit less evil to me, even if the lesson is supposed to be that there's this even darker evil lurking inside him. It felt like he was already quite evil and menacing beforehand. I think this is one of those episodes that's very gripping and an interesting character study but less rewatchable. By the end, I kind of pity Dukat.

[chacusha]

Yeah, I agree -- I do like Dukat's complex characterization and the show generally does some very interesting things with him, this episode included. But I do like him better when he's rational and has a more "genteel" form of evil. It's an interesting episode nevertheless! Quite challenging on the Quodo end, though!